This oral history was collected and edited by the George Ewart Evans Centre for Storytelling as part of the Bawso Stories project.

The Bawso Stories project is an innovative partnership project between George Ewart Evans Centre for Storytelling (University of South Wales), specialist support organisation Bawso and National Museum Wales. This project was funded by National Lottery Heritage Fund.

Consent has been given for this story to be shared
a. In the archives and collections of Amgueddfa Cymru (Museum Wales) 
b. On websites, e.g. The People’s Collection Wales, Bawso, The University of South Wales, Amgueddfa Cymru, etc. 
c. On social media, e.g. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, etc. 
d. In written publications, e.g. project reports, journal articles, etc. 
e. In any other uses in line with the project aims and objectives 

--

Interview with Zoya (Bawso Stories)

Duration: 00:27:35

So why don't we start with the museum? Can you remember what did you see in the museum, and what did it remind you of?

Yeah, when we came to the museum and we went upstairs, we saw the lady was doing the wool and knitting. So this is reminded me from my childhood. So when, when we was in this school, we finished the school our uncle used, when we come back from this school, our uncle say, sit down and start doing the knitting and do the baskets and the mat, sitting mats, we have to make it so we have to climb all the way, because we have lots of dates tree.  Very long. so we, somebody, have to climb and take it out the leaves, because the leaves is very strong, and we do the, I don't know what you call for.  You know you do.

Knitting or weaving?

Weaving, I think, yeah, so we have to make it one by one. Like you, do with the hair plaiting?

Plaiting.

Plaiting, sorry.  We have to do that one and make it one by one and attach to each other. But it takes us whole day to make one, and then we, when we finish this one, go back home and then study for one hour. And then tomorrow, early morning, we have to again, wake up so we didn't have chance to play or speak friends or something like that, but it was reminded me of my childhood, how we was working hard for little things. So it's really nice, when I went in the museum, and also when we went around and see different clothes. So we used to have the small we sit down like with my auntie, mother, my sisters and they the person bring us like clothes where you have to do the Naksha I don't.

Sewing?

Designs.

Embroidery.

Embroidery, so he brings small, small bits different colours, and he give us the design. So we have to do this one. It take us, like two weeks to finish whole dress. Somebody bring their weddings, somebody bring their traditional dress to do it. But we have to put it in the wooden, square wooden have to put that clothes in, and then we have to that material, and then we do the sewing. Yeah, so it's really remind me lots of things when I came to the museum, yeah.

So, the baskets and the mats.

Yeah.

What's the traditional word for that in your language?

Um.

You’re speaking Arabic?

Arabic, yeah.

What's the word in Arabic for…

The mat called Sajada and the basket called Sala.

For the basket?

No, for the mat and, no, I don’t remember about that one.

Was your uncle making them, why was he making them and why were you making them, was it to sell them?

Yes, to sell them and get some money from it, yeah.  And also, we have something called for Fukhar.  It's with the, we make it with, you know when you make with your hand like a vase and cups, mud.

Clay?

Clay, we used to sit down and down and make that one.

Also to sell?

Also to sell yeah.  So he have like in the road, he sit down and sell this kind of things. So, we used to help him all the time to do with the clay make cups, plates and also we make the pot to cook the food, yeah. When you cook this food in this pot, which we make it with our hand, it makes really delicious food and you can feel that deliciousness, and when it cooked inside it, you, food is different, you cannot taste this kind of food anywhere else, yeah.  

So he had lots of lots of skills, dress making.

Yeah, we used to do this, like a woman s used to do the clothes making the knitting ones. And with my uncles, we used to do the clay ones, make it, and also the baskets and the mats.  Yeah.

So you said you were working hard, yeah, and because you weren't very, very old.

No.

Can you tell me a bit more about how old you were, who you were doing it with, and how it felt to do all these handicrafts.

I was around eight to nine years old and sit with my uncles, and we used to make it, but it feels like, when I see my friends, they are playing. They call me and they say, come, we can play. But we was like, you know, forced to do something. So it's really hard. We, like our hands used to pain, and even we tell them, they say, no, you have to do it. Because if we don't do it, from where we can get money or how we survive, you know. So we used to help and do the things they say us to do.

Was that normal for children to be working like that?

Not all, some of them, other my friends, they didn't, they didn't force but our situation maybe was difficult and hard, so we have to do to help them.

So was there anything else at the museum, you said it was the lady spinning the wool, or was it the weaving that reminded you of the basket weaving?

Basket weaving.

Which object was it that you saw that reminded you of that?

The one she was, like a wheel, and she was doing in the, her thigh, she was doing it. So it's reminded because we got lots of sheep animals. So we do have to cut their skin, the wool and bring it, and then we give it. So they teach us how to do, help them. Yeah.

So you would do the thigh.

The thigh ones.

Can you tell me a bit more about, about how you would make the yarn and then what you would do with it?

They make it, they do it with the thigh, but make it, uh.

Thick, thin?

So they do it with their thigh, make it very thin, so they can then use it for the sewing as well for the clothing and doing other stuff with it.

So you would use that to sew on the clothes.

Yes.

Would you also knit with it or?

Knit we do it, but that will be like our mother they knit the clothes like my mother. She make for my son a hat, and she send it over so all three of my children, they share it, and they wear the hat. Yeah.

I remember them telling about that on the day, they were very sweet, very sweet.

Thank you.

Yeah.

They were very excited and happy to tell you their story.

So I think in future, it's something to think about, if we can do it with kids.

And also, you know, with the hat, the Arab people wear it. So we do sew that one as well, but it will be like designs, and it will be holes. So you just take the needle and sew it, but different, different colour.  It will be like in the paper, in the picture they show you, and you have to do that. So this one, the men wear it, wear that.

Were you making those when you were younger, too?

Yeah.

Is there anything else you'd like to tell me about the museum trip, things you saw, things you were reminded of.

The museum have reminded a lot of things, like, you know, the wooden design of it, so it remind us like our houses was like, you know, big space and the also all the things, most of the things over there, like blanket, old blankets, yeah, they reminded us our childhood when we was doing it and sleeping on it. Yeah.  Thank you very much that we've been there.

You know, it's really interesting to hear that it was so impactful. And I know it was a long journey.

Long journey yeah.. I told one of my friend as well. She was really excited. She wanted to come and see the museum when I told that, it reminded my back home and what we used to do it, and it reminded me good things and bad as well.  So how we, it was good, like we was as a family, doing everything I was with my family, but now I'm here by myself. So it's bit, you know, you remember those things? Yeah.

It's both happy and painful isn’t it?

Yes, it is.

Happy to have those memories.

Memories, yeah and but it is little bit struggle, like you know.

Do you mean when you were younger.

It was hard, it was very hard.  I don't want my, I want my children to learn this kind of thing, but not forced to do something.

Yeah, yeah.

It wasn't like for us easy. It's like from ourself. We wanted to learn to do some now my children, if they wanted, they will say, Oh, Mom, can we do that? Can we help you in the cooking? But for us, it wasn't like we wanted. It was all by force. You have to do this thing. So it was really hard, because during whole week, we have to do that. It's like if we get to time, even for the studies, it will be in the night time and again. From morning, we will start doing the same thing.

Did you also have to work before school? Or did you always do it after school?

Because the schools start from seven o'clock in the morning, so when we they wake us from the prayer, then we sit down and whatever we can help with the cooking and everything, breakfast.

And then school all day.

School all day, and when we come back from the school straight away, we do help, yeah.

It’s a lot, isn't it?

A lot yeah.

Is there anything else you'd like to tell me about the museum? What you saw, memories you had, anything else.

Only those memories.

How much money would you get for a basket or mat? Can you remember?

No, because my uncle, he take it. So we just helped him to get there.

Thank you for sharing those stories about the museum. So now I know you have to go soon, but I wondered if you wanted to do a little bit of the interview just 10 minutes, maybe whilst you're here.

Okay, no problem.

So one of my questions was about your childhood, but you've told me quite a bit about your childhood. Is anything else about your childhood you'd like to share?

My childhood was really difficult because we do have to like work, and then we do have to.  We can’t get what we wanted and if we dress up always, we have to be very long, proper. So it wasn’t like free freedom, what you get it no.  But we have to do everything, strictly, listen in a way. If not, then we will be banned. We cannot, only do works only, nothing we can do.

Is there anything else about your childhood you'd like to share.  You said you were in, you did go to school.

Yeah, used to go to the school, come back. But when I see my friends, they play. They have to, they can do something. But in the play time, I have to do my homeworks because I don't have time later on to do anything my homework or anything like that. So it was always, I remember I have to cry. It's really hard, yeah, and I don't want my children to do or suffer that things.

So can you, can you tell me a bit about your experience of coming to Wales. Again it doesn't have to be anything you don't want to share. Just yeah.

When I came to Wales, like everyone, when they go somewhere, they are excited to go somewhere new, get some new things, see different.  And it was very welcoming when we came to Wales, it was, people guided us where to go, what to do, and helped us and lots of communities are there to support and advise you. And I really like felt like Wales is like a home to me, and I was happy because lots of different people from different communities, and they come together and celebrate the things, and we meet up. Sometimes we do some cooking, like lots of activities Wales have for us to do, keep us busy.

How long have you been here?

Around nine years.

Do you, has your relationship with Wales changed at all in those nine years? Or is, do you feel the same as you did when you came it?

I got, like, a strong what you got a strong relationship? Because it's been like been long time, and it gave me lots of positive energies and also help develop my skills and empower me to do something, help me with to move, move forward. See new things, build new things, like I went in the front, not in the back. Yeah, so I'm very happy for that.

Fantastic, that’s good. I was wondering if you can tell me what home the idea of home means to you.

Home is where I feel safe, comfortable, and happy with my family.  Where I can trust and be there like ensure myself I'm, nothing happened to me. I'm safe.  This is what I feel a home is, and will always think about the positive things, not a negative, and always think about the future going to be better, rather than, I think no something bad will happen.

Can you describe a place or time or moment in your life that's important to you?

The moment when my child was child born. So I was alone in the hospital, and I was very scared, because I didn't know that much language, and the lady was deliverer to me.  I don't know. I didn't feel very comfortable. I was so scared, I thought like, I was crying, crying. But when the doctor came, so when he saw my situation, he said, what happened? What is wrong? I was scared to tell him; with this lady I don't know. I didn't feel comfortable. So changed the midwife for me. I was so surprised that he done that for me, that moment and that say, I never forget that even I'm from another place, they done something for me, you know, so I felt that, yeah, this is my home. They, they did listen, understand my thing.

I'm glad to hear you felt listened to.

Thank you.

Sounds like that was very meaningful for you.

Because they did understand. You know, I was very happy, because this is was my first child. I was alone, no family, nothing, and they just asked me why you are not comfortable, for what reason? So when I told the reason, they straight away change, and I was surprised that they can do for me, and I'm not belong to their country. So it was something shocking, and something, you know, also excited. I was very, very like, I cannot describe what they done for me like I was very happy that time.  This is the moment I cannot forget.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. You know, it sounds like that was very, very, very meaningful to you.

Yeah.

I wonder if you could tell me a bit about, I know we have to finish soon, your hopes for the future.

My hope in the future, I always like to help people who whoever come new here, they don't know.  So I do help them to whatever I can help like one of lady, she's suffering. She got divorced from her husband. She's crying all the time. She needs somebody to listen. So I always there for her and help her. She wanted to her children, to change the school. She moved out somewhere else, so I did help her, take her to places where she can get help as well. So like, Wales teach, gave me lots of good lessons to teach others, so I'm really happy and proud of it.

Could you tell me a bit more about what have been those experiences or opportunities that have helped you to get more confident? Is it that you've had some training or education or just experiences.

Like BAWSO, BAWSO supported us a lot with the courses to, like time management and get confident ourselves. They teach us like we can do something, we are able, because, before we just listening, you can't do this, you can't do that, this is what. But when we are here now, we have that ability that we can say, Yes, I can do something, or I can share something, we was just scared, you know, can't do anything. Somebody have to be with us, no. Now even we are alone, but we can manage everything by ourselves. We can also advise others and help them what they can able to do.

You're experts in your experience.

Now, yes, this is what Wales teach us. So I'm really happy.

I know you have to go soon, but I wonder if there's anything else you'd like to share or that you feel is important for us to know about, about you and your life and your story.

I just advise everyone to be strong and do what you want to do. Don't think that everyone have their own ability and skills to do something, but scared like English language is the barrier for them to do something. But, but here they are helping with courses and supporting women so they can do so. I just encourage them to do something rather than sitting. That's why we go to the groups where they can teach sewing. They can learn with it and IT for the womens, so we do that. Yeah.

Do you have any other hopes for the future of what you would   like to do.

For the future, I want to be like, do something for the ladies who cannot able to do anything, you know, so we do some like run communities or help them to improve and get confident that they can do something.

Is there anything else you'd like to share?  Thank you.

Thank you so much.

So lovely. Thank you.